"Hard to Handle" - awesome lesson

Hey Mike -

Just wanted to drop you a note thanking you for the awesome lesson of "Hard to Handle" by the Black Crowes. When that song was added to our setlist, I was struggling to find decent tabs and instructions on the Internet. The "wall of sound" that you describe is so dense in the studio recording that I couldn't really peel it apart.

Then I found your lesson here. I should have looked here first :-). It was an awesome breakdown of the various parts. I had to spend 3 hours getting the opening phrases of the first solo under my fingers, but I got there.

The other guitarist is a subscriber here too, so we'll both be playing from the same page.

Thanks again!
Rich

Right on Rich!! Glad to hear it!

I find the same thing looking for accurate tabs/notation on the internet. It's very hit or miss, so it's nice to be able to teach songs on here and really break down everything in accurate detail.

And kudos for putting in the 3 hours to get those licks happening! Sometimes it feels like an eternity to get some tricky stuff down, but when you finally get it it's very rewarding!

Keep rockin!
Mike

Thanks Mike! Yes, it is very rewarding. With all of that effort, I was so happy to find the rest of the solo was a piece of cake in comparison. I was kind of dreading having to slog the same way through the rest of it, but if that was what it took, then so be it.

I do have a question though. I find that since I focused so hard on that opening lick that when I play, I don't really hear it if you know what I mean. It is more of a mechanical exercise now and it's lost some of its soul. Hopefully you understand what I'm talking about.

How do you get past that or avoid it? So you experience anything like this when learning something difficult for you?

I plan on recording our practice session tonight, so perhaps when I listen to the playback it will be different once I'm removed from it.

If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you still might be "thinking" of the mechanics of executing the lick properly whenever you perform it.

Over time, with more repetition and practice, you won't need to think about it as much. It will just "be there". When that happens, you can focus on playing the solo as a complete entity, and inject the soul and expression from yourself into it.

Make sense?
Mike

Reflecting on it, yes, what you say makes sense. Though my fingers seem to go where they need to on autopilot, I am concentrating on it a lot. I think that's because I'm not at a point yet where I can nail it cold - I have to play it through a few times to warm up. I don't have the confidence in it yet.

Thanks for the insight.

Hi Maggior- I know EXACTLY what your talking about here because I feel this way a lot.

On another thread ( or maybe another forum? ) someone eluded to the notion that tab dependent players (can) sound soul-less. At first I rejected the idea but, after mulling on it some, I think it's quite true and I am amongst the guilty.

I'm frequently unsatisfied with my lead playing (on covers) and I kind of resolved that I just didn't have the talent gene. Phrasing a little off, timing a little off ...etc. The notes are there - but the feel comes up short. I think Mike's advice for you fits me also.

Every time I query the pros here the advice almost always involves an increase in the quantity and quality of my practice time. For me, I think I need to quit searching for a magic pill and just get on with more frequent and mindful practice. Glad you brought this up and posed it to Mike. Maybe, after hearing for the umpteenth time, I will finally shed the lazy and resolve to put in the work that I need to achieve that elusive next level.

Always good talking with you brother :) ((thanks also to Mike))

Hey Fretsmith -

That thread was here and I had it mind when I wrote my post. So it's funny you should bring it up :-). It had to do with learning by ear vs. learning from tabs.

There's another aspect to what you are talking about regarding learning covers and being dissatisfied with the result. I've discovered that there is great satisfaction in developing your own style through improvising solos and coming up riffs. That helped me appreciate the skills and abilities I already have. So when I get frustrated with learning a cover my self esteem as a guitar player doesn't take as much of a hit - I know I have my own style and I can play it well. Secondly, there's nothing wrong with using the cover version as a framework and incorporating your own style into it. Unless you are in a tribute band where you are expected to completely emulate the style, I see nothing wrong with this. I would say it's better to do that and have some soul in it rather than have the timing and phrasing slightly off where it comes off sounding lifeless.

To kind of illustrate this, at last night's practice I got to go through this solo twice. The first time I kind of hit it, the second time was a "swing and a miss!". I fell back to my own ideas for this solo but it felt like a trainwreck. I listened to the recording after the fact and it wasn't bad. The first one you wouldn't even know I messed up, the second one would have been OK if I just let myself go with what I started to do rather than try to get back on track to the "real version".

I hope that makes some sense. These realizations have really helped me enjoy my playing as it is and keep motivated to keep going and improve.

Regardless, it's always nice to know you aren't the only one struggling with this sort of thing!

Guys, great discussion!

Fretsmith, I'm glad you brought up the whole concept of looking for that "magic pill". There really is no substitute for putting in quality practice time; specifically, repetition!! Whether it's one lick over and over, or the whole solo over and over, what you will find is that, over time, all of that repetition translates into your fingers and hand muscles becoming much more relaxed and fluid, and receptive to more difficult material. Not only will you be much better at performing the solo itself, but you will have improved your overall ability significantly, so it can be applied to all other songs or licks.

As I eluded to earlier, eventually you will have played something so much that your fingers will just start to get you there without as much effort, and then you can focus on the tiny (but significant) performance details: vibrato, bending, how you picked it, timing, phrasing -- all of the little details that add up to the "soul" or "feeling" you're going for.

In most players, this usually doesn't happen overnight. It is a ton of practice that gets them there!

And Rich, as you've mentioned, the key is to not let it deter you --- continue to play because you ENJOY it ... and embrace all of the unique personality that YOU bring to your playing! So what if at the next gig you play the Hard To Handle solo different than the record, just go for it and have fun. If you can do that, but still be mindful of areas that you can work towards improving, then it is a bonus!

Mike

Good job maggior,on hard to handle.iam glad ur having fun with it..i learned that song a while back ,here on gt.its a.cool song,and iam a big fan of BC..but i didnt learn the solo..i been learning,a/c d/c songs.there good songs,and i love the band.the solo for,you shook me all nigjt long.is one of the most easier solo i ever learned.sounds great,yet easy too play....i took the lesson from,STEVE STINE. Multitude of lessens.i was gonna sign up for a live lesson. But he raised his price too $80 an hour..so no thanks. Ill grab all his free ones he has.peace.

It took me about a week to nail down "Hard to Handle" with 2hr practice sessions for about 6 days. However, if I moved on to another song I would forget some solo notes when I came back to play HTH. It took another month with various practice times for it to finally engrave it in my brain.

This brings me to this question. I am an advanced player but how long does it take to learn a song? I know everyone has a learning curve and there is always that staleness until you break through the wall sort of thing. How long should it take to nail a song.

So two questions.
How long did it take you to finish HTH?
How long should it take to learn a song with a difficult level of 4 to 5 guitars?

It makes me feel good to know that you are an advanced player and didn't learn Hard to Handle in one sitting :-).

The difficulty level of songs labeled here is hard. There are 4 guitar songs that I've learned with no trouble, and there are 3 guitar songs (Hard to Handle is an example) that take me longer.

A lot of it depends on your experience. The opening phrase of the first hard to handle solo gave me fits and felt like my fingers were tripping all over eachother. Now it's second nature...so a similar solo in the future will be a lot easier.

The is in the "Ask Mike Olekshy" section of the forum. A general discussion like this might be better put in the "full access forum".

maggior

Thanks for the input.

I rather learn note for note until the mechanics are gone and until I can play loose and sometimes it fun to play loose and sloppy just as long as you get the feel and vibe of the song.

...and I am basically am asking Mike how long did it take for him to learn the song HTH. I just threw the extra general question about length of learning time to any song because it was on my mind. But going to the general forum is duly noted.

Ok, sorry.

I agree that it is best to learn it note for note and then explore with it. The benefit of being loose with it is you won't panic in a live situation. We played this song in the school rock band I was in and the singer got balled up with the lyrics. We all sort of weren't sure what to do and I subsequently messed up thd solo. My mess up thought fit and you could call it a looser version :-). another instructor here neal had the opposite experience with a van halen solo when put on the spot...he had said a looser version would have been better since he did notbdo well trying to nail I note for note in a live situation.

Hey guys!! How long should it take to nail a song? Man, there is just no accurate timeframe here. It depends on so many factors that I could not even begin to give you a ballpark answer.

I've been playing for close to 30 years, and to this day, it still surprises me which parts or licks I have trouble nailing down. It depends on so many mechanical factors (phrasing, timing, positions, picking patterns, etc), that sometimes a lick on a recording is just awkward enough for me to copy that I have no choice but to spend hours practicing the lick at a slow tempo just to get it down.

And I haven't even brought up the mental aspect : memorization! Hearing the music in your head, and having enough musical experience and technical ability to be able to respond and execute! Every player is different in each category!

The only surefire thing I can tell you is that the practice you put in is all cumulative. Meaning, for each hour you've practiced a lick, you've gotten that much better, and over time, licks and solos will become easier and easier to nail down. Unfortunately, each player is different and progresses at his/her own pace.

Hope this helps!!
Mike

Thanks for the feedback Mike. And yes that helped. So practice, practice and practice some more.

Originally Posted by: Mike OlekshyHey guys!! How long should it take to nail a song? Man, there is just no accurate timeframe here. It depends on so many factors that I could not even begin to give you a ballpark answer.

I've been playing for close to 30 years, and to this day, it still surprises me which parts or licks I have trouble nailing down. It depends on so many mechanical factors (phrasing, timing, positions, picking patterns, etc), that sometimes a lick on a recording is just awkward enough for me to copy that I have no choice but to spend hours practicing the lick at a slow tempo just to get it down.

And I haven't even brought up the mental aspect : memorization! Hearing the music in your head, and having enough musical experience and technical ability to be able to respond and execute! Every player is different in each category!

The only surefire thing I can tell you is that the practice you put in is all cumulative. Meaning, for each hour you've practiced a lick, you've gotten that much better, and over time, licks and solos will become easier and easier to nail down. Unfortunately, each player is different and progresses at his/her own pace.

Hope this helps!!
Mike

this is great advice and encouraging. I finally learned how to play this song correctly. thanks for the great lesson.

Glad to hear it!!

Keep rockin'!
Mike

The songs is becoming the bane of my existence!!! :-). My band is playing out for the first time on Friday and we decided include Hard to Handle in the setlist. Our singer is in love with this song!

The tempo of the outro solo is right my max speed for playing triplets cleanly, so it's a bit of a challenge. I still have a few days to sort that out...I may punt and just improvise the entire thing...but then that's a whole different type of stress :-).

However, I STILL cannot work out the opening phrase of the first solo. I listen to Mike play it and it makes sense. I play it and it feels like there are too many notes! I've slowed it down to make sure I wasn't adding something that wasn't there.

I'll continue to work on it, but never did I think this song would be so hard! Is it because of the syncopation in the song? It sounds straight forward, but somehow it isn't...

Hey Rich!

Man, sometimes there are those licks that just won't take!!! I will say that the opening lick is a bit tricky in the phrasing ... I definitely had some trouble initially.

Something to try ... maybe you've already done this, but break the lick down even further. Start with the opening bends. Then tackle the next 5 notes, then the next 4, then the last set of notes. Try isolating each chunk of notes, then repeating at a slower speed for several minutes each.

Once you've spent a good amount of time with each chunk within the lick, then spend some time stringing them all together ... again, at a slow speed. Repetition is the key, so dig in and play it over and over.

Hope this is something that can help!

Mike

Hi Mike -

I'm glad to hear that you agree that the phrasing in the opening lick is tricky. It sounds so easy...yet it isn't.

I did what you suggest in the beginning - I had to just to get the lick under my fingers. I'll go through the exercise again though. I need to analyze it because I feel like I'm playing it "floating over" the rhythm rather than locking into it. It hasn't clicked for me as to how it locks in with the rhythm of the song.

This may be an excuse to purchase Transcribe! so I can really slow it down and analyze it.

At rehearsal last night, for some reason I decided to come in with the solo slightly early. That made a big difference and I didn't feel like I was cramming a bunch of notes in for the sake of it. We are performing this song on Friday and I'm going to go with that approach for now...it works at least.

The outro solo came together for me well. Now I've got some new bluesy riffs to add to my arsenal. I can play that little hammer-on triplet thing up to speed. Success!! Can't wait to let this song rip on Friday!

Thanks for the help Mike!

Rich