death = legend status

not all but most of the time a person is much more appreciated when he dies. but when he is alive his bad works always has over shadow the good ones.

a career at its peak and instant death would make you a legend.
dont you think so too?

"If you die when there's no one watching
and your ratings drop and you're forgotten
If they kill you on their TV
You're a martyr and the lamb of God"

-Marilyn Manson, "Lamb of God".

Yeah... Dead people sometimes become overrated... Like "oh he was such a genious too bad he died because he could have been sooooo great"...

Kurt Cobaine. Need I say more?

Originally Posted by: Cryptic ExcretionsKurt Cobaine. Need I say more?

Jim Morrison, Randy Rhoads, Keith Moon
(of course, those guys are all legends for musicianship, not lyrical abilities...except Morrison...)

Cobain, Hendrix, Stevie Ray, Randy Rhoads.. to name a few were all great musicians in their own right... and they all were doing something different that other people weren't doing... The death of Cobain basically was the beginning of the end of Grunge (which was a major musical movement)... How far could he have taken it??? The death of Hendrix was the end of The Experience... which was one of the groundbreaking bands of the late 60's and early 70's... If he had not died... could have steered music in a different direction than it is today??? Stevie Ray Vaughan wasn't even at the peak of his career yet. He was just starting to get recognition for his own works besides his masterful covers of HENDRIX songs. His sudden death might have been what has kept blues out of the mainstream music market... you think??? Randy Rhoads is one of the few that have seen their musical genre thrive even after his death. Metal and "virtuoso" style guitar have caught on quite well since the death of Rhoads mostly because metal was already abundant while he was alive... and he doesn't carry quite as much "Lengend Status" with me as say John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, or Stevie Ray... but none the less... he is celebrated more now that he is dead. I think it also has to do with the publicity that their works get AFTER they die... When someone dies a tragic death it's generally broadcast nation/world wide... thus more people hear the name and the music... causing them to get more fans. That's my deep thought about instant legend status with death... I think they all deserve to be remembered, for good or bad...

This thread brought Dime to mind. In his case though, he already was a "legend". Actually I'd argue everyone mentioned (and many more) had already earned most of their status in the music world, but their deaths left a void and regret that they won't be playing anymore. As it should be. There are living legends around right now...credit is given where it's due. Had any of these people who died still lived, they'd just be a living legend.

That is true as well. The thing about it is... I will use Dime as an example... Dime was a lengend to the ones that followed metal. After his death, his music was exposed to a lot of different people and they began liking him... just becuase they'd never heard him play much before, or they wanted to jump on the bandwagon. I guess what I'm saying is, a wider array of people are exposed to an individuals music after they die.

Cliff Burton in a way, too

I meant Cobaine in a more satirical sense, seeing as to how his music wasn't really anything special (opinion), but yet people still adhere to him as a revolution which in a sense I guess he is. But I guarantee if he kept going his music would've just gotten worse and worse because it's all more or less the same thing. There are way too many legends, per se, out there to name them all.

Ah yes thank you! Cliff Burton is one of those. I really think all of Metallica are all worshipped way too much. I like thier music but come on everyone it wasnt all godly, their album Reload sucked. Idk it just seems all the same. But anyways, as far as Kurt Cobain goes, I think he is the the king of this thread. He was known before his death, because i mean he opened up a door for a ton of harder bands but people around here consider him to be way better than i really think he was. Again, I like Nirvana but i dont see where people are getting this from... He wasnt a guitar god. He was a wonderful songwriter who could express what he wanted in the most innovative way, but so many people just LOVE him now that hes dead. Its exactly what Courtney Love thought would happen when she killed him wasnt it?

Kurt Cobain was already very famous. He was at the height of his career and if he would not of committed suicide he would of still came out with very good material. He wasn't a good guitarist but he didn't care. What carried through Nirvana’s songs was great melody and he wrote very good hooks and used the guitar to convey his words. What he also had was a very good singing rock voice. Anyone can learn to play the guitar all they want but either you got a good voice or you don’t. He should be respected as a good artist in his own way as well as any other musician, famous or not.

Kurt Cobain was already very famous. He was at the height of his career and if he would not of committed suicide he would of still came out with very good material. He wasn't a good guitarist but he didn't care. What carried through Nirvana’s songs was great melody and he wrote very good hooks and used the guitar to convey his words. What he also had was a very good singing rock voice. Anyone can learn to play the guitar all they want but either you got a good voice or you don’t. He should be respected as a good artist in his own way as well as any other musician, famous or not.

I said all that, but i bet he would not have been as famous as he is now had he been still hanging around making music. Even I was drawn to Nirvana by the weird and controversial death of Kurt Cobain, so i have no doubt that they got even more attention because of it.

Originally Posted by: fingertricksAnyone can learn to play the guitar all they want but either you got a good voice or you don’t.

To that I say balderdash. Firstly, that sentance doesn't make much sense considering the art of singing is achieved very differently from the art of guitar. So comparing the two is like comparing milking a cow to a chicken laying eggs. Secondly, I do get the point you're getting at and that is false in its own right. A guy with a good singing voice can only go so far with just a good singing voice let alone when standing next to a guy with a great singing voice because he practiced and dedicated himself to making himself better than the rest. And to say a guitarist is nothing without a good singer is a big stab at instrumental artists like Satriani, Vai, Petrucci, Batio and plenty of other bands that have excluded vocals on a lot of their work (not necessarily all of their work). Could Cobaine write a good instrumental song? Probably not and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with writing songs intended for vocals. Just food for thought. And regarding his good voice, it was actually just good for the music he wrote. His voice lacked dynamics and he wouldn't have succeeded doing anything else because of this. That and his voice cracked a lot. But that's also fine. It worked and it worked well with what he wrote. So here's to him.

Regarding the rest, yes Cobaine was famous before he died (be it suicide or murder or any other rumor anyone throws out) but he and his music were so well known that all it would take was one bad CD to turn all the critics and fans against him and push him to the back as a has been so he can later compete against Vanilla Ice on Celebrity Boxing. Now instead he died in his prime and all that's left is his name, his fame and the music that brought it about. And since he's dead there's no way he'll ever make a bad song or anything. And to say that he'd keep writing good music (considering he practiced playing how much?) is a big statement. Look at Metallica. Cliff died and the name kept going and now they're just some sissy rock group now. In their prime they were about as fast and heavy as it got and I guarantee if they called it quits post-Cliff people wouldn't believe that they couldn't write a bad song because of what they left just before they stopped. The same applies to Hendrix, Zeppelin and plenty other groups. Granted my examples are pretty extreme, but if Jimi or Bonam didn't die, who knows where either group would've gone. It probably would've been good, but you never know. Now all that's left is the lingering essence of his name, his fame and the music that brought it all about. That being said, Cobaine, as well as plenty of others, was a good composer and I do respect him for writing music that did make such an impact. But even a good composer can write a bad song. And I guess that's where I'll leave that one.

And there it is ladies and gentlemen. The nearly-an-entire-page-to-itself post by PonyOne.

Cryptic, I didn't say half the stuff that you commented on against my quote but ok. It all really doesn't matter, everyone has their opinions and everyone seems to think they're right. That's how we are as self centered human beings. I think everyone has forgotten why we create music in the first place...for ourselves. Peace ;)

I am right...always :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by: PonyOnenot that anyone here has done it, but, the anti-Kurt Cobain bandwagon pisses me off.

I'm pretty sure there's a pro-Cobain bandwagon that's just as annoying (not that you're on it, I know you know what you're talking about).

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonI'm pretty sure there's a pro-Cobain bandwagon that's just as annoying (not that you're on it, I know you know what you're talking about).

TRUEEEEEEE. I respect people who stand for what they believe in... Punk is generally a non-conformity type of point of view. Those who want to be punk because they think it's cool is a good example of an oxymoron. I'm not punk, but I think it's funny to see kids walking around all punk'd out driving in their daddys Mercedes or people that can wear Abercrombie and Fitch one day then turn around and wear an outfit that they got at Hot Topic... just becuase they think it's cool... I laugh at those people. Same goes for the Cobain followers that don't know anything about him or his songwriting abilities