hendrix vs. van halen

Man... I hate getting into discussions comparing two musicians. You always end up offending somebody because they take it personally that you aren't as impressed as you should be.
With that said... sorry but I just don't hear what you're hearing.
If it was anybody but Jimi Hendrix my comment would be that it's an intermediate guitar player doing some simple licks with a few standard quick runs that he's learned. He's constantly going out of beat with the backup band and the whole song goes along at one level and never gets anywhere.
Halfway through the song, the recording engineer had to add stereo reverb to the feedback guitar to make it sound more interesting, then added a flange effect over the next part of the song..mainly because the second part of the song doesn't sound any different than the first.

The 'plus' points in his favour are that he was one of the original people to come up with those licks and that, plus the fact that he was a black player and the fact that he's now dead has all added to the "ElvisLennon" effect of making him more than he actually was.

Van Halen learned everything that Hendrix did then went on to improve on it ten fold.
His playing isn't just faster, it's more innovative, cleaner, controled and more precise. His control of the whammy bar and the fact that he revolutionized tapping puts him way ahead of Hendrix in terms of playing talent in my opinion.

There's no way for instance, that hendrix could ever play any of this...

http://s93744050.onlinehome.us/eruptiontake18.mp3

But EVH could easily play anything that Hendrix ever did.

Oh c'mon !!! You guys gotta be kidding .I actually love both players .Eddie is one of the reasons I picked up the guitar after all . But we're talking about a guy ( Jimi) who actually came up with stuff like the opening lick to "Voodoochild", "Fire", "Little wing" back when most people were doing the happy homosexual sing alongs .He was way ahead of his time .If it weren't for Hendrix most of us would be playing the gazoo and liking it including Eddie !! ;)

Originally Posted by: schmangeThere's no way for instance, that hendrix could ever play any of this...

http://s93744050.onlinehome.us/eruptiontake18.mp3

But EVH could easily play anything that Hendrix ever did.

Wait, Jimi could never play any of Eruption? You kidding me? I could play that if you locked me in a room with my guitar, an amp, and the recording. . . that's just pure brainlessness right there.

Anyway, back to learning Midnight, which is a much more interesting song than Eruption, which is just Eddie cumming all over his guitar. Everybody has those moments, it's nothing special.

RedZep

EDIT: What the hell do you mean it all sounds the same? Open your ears man. . . It's the same bloody thing as Eruption, and you may say that Eddie has more control over his tremelo bar? Possibly, though Eddie uses it as an effect, Jimi used it as flavor.

> Wait, Jimi could never play any of Eruption? You kidding me? I could
> play that if you locked me in a room with my guitar, an amp, and the
> recording.

Great!
We'll be waiting for you to post your MP3 in the listening room.
Is tomorrow too soon?

Originally Posted by: schmange> Wait, Jimi could never play any of Eruption? You kidding me? I could
> play that if you locked me in a room with my guitar, an amp, and the
> recording.

Great!
We'll be waiting for you to post your MP3 in the listening room.
Is tomorrow too soon?

I could have sworn I added in a week in there, but now that I look at my post it seams that I didn't. Now being as I'm in the middle of learning a new hendrix song, and I need a guitar with a tremelo bar, I have one, but it's in le shop, maybe when we get it out. ;)

RedZep

Originally Posted by: RedZepI could have sworn I added in a week in there, but now that I look at my post it seams that I didn't. Now being as I'm in the middle of learning a new hendrix song, and I need a guitar with a tremelo bar, I have one, but it's in le shop, maybe when we get it out. ;)

RedZep

If you can't play Eruption now, you won't be playing it in a week! You under estimate one of the greatest or arguably THE greatest
guitarists "Cumming all over his guitar" as you put it. If your in the MIDDLE of learning a Hendrix song, there's just no way you can lay down Eruption or Spanish Fly in a week. I learn Hendrix songs, note for note, in about 30 minutes to an hour. You're barkin up the wrong tree, when it comes to who's stuff is harder to play.

I'm sure Jimi could play "Eruption", but he didn't. Eddie did.

As far as "revolutionizing the guitar" I would go with Hendrix. The stuff he did laid the groundwork for rock guitar and then Eddie just took it to the next level. I think that these two are the best guitarists that ever lived because of how they changed the way guitar is played and the countless musicians they've inspired. No others come close.

As far as who's better is a question, in my opinion, that can't be answered, so I think they should both be #1.

Originally Posted by: RedZepWait, Jimi could never play any of Eruption? You kidding me? I could play that if you locked me in a room with my guitar, an amp, and the recording. . . that's just pure brainlessness right there.

Anyway, back to learning Midnight, which is a much more interesting song than Eruption, which is just Eddie cumming all over his guitar. Everybody has those moments, it's nothing special.

RedZep

EDIT: What the hell do you mean it all sounds the same? Open your ears man. . . It's the same bloody thing as Eruption, and you may say that Eddie has more control over his tremelo bar? Possibly, though Eddie uses it as an effect, Jimi used it as flavor.

dude, EVH is a much better technical guitarist than Jimi. Period. He was more that 10 years after him, if he wasnt better than Jimi, then it would be a disgrace. Cause as every generation passes, the guitarists getter better by skill. So you cant Judge them as one being a better guitarist.(maybe whos the better inspirer, but not better guitarist)
Its like Issac Newton. He is in almost very physics book about his laws and is considered a genieus. He's worshiped by alot of scientists. YET!! scientists now days know much, much more than he every did in his lifetime. This same concept applies with Jimi and EVH. So Jimi cant really be compared to Eddy...

And I highly doubt Jimi could every play Eruption, even if he used his whammy bar for flavor... :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by: schmangeMan... I hate getting into discussions comparing two musicians. You always end up offending somebody because they take it personally that you aren't as impressed as you should be.
With that said... sorry but I just don't hear what you're hearing.
If it was anybody but Jimi Hendrix my comment would be that it's an intermediate guitar player doing some simple licks with a few standard quick runs that he's learned. He's constantly going out of beat with the backup band and the whole song goes along at one level and never gets anywhere.
Halfway through the song, the recording engineer had to add stereo reverb to the feedback guitar to make it sound more interesting, then added a flange effect over the next part of the song..mainly because the second part of the song doesn't sound any different than the first.

The 'plus' points in his favour are that he was one of the original people to come up with those licks and that, plus the fact that he was a black player and the fact that he's now dead has all added to the "ElvisLennon" effect of making him more than he actually was.

Van Halen learned everything that Hendrix did then went on to improve on it ten fold.
His playing isn't just faster, it's more innovative, cleaner, controled and more precise. His control of the whammy bar and the fact that he revolutionized tapping puts him way ahead of Hendrix in terms of playing talent in my opinion.

There's no way for instance, that hendrix could ever play any of this...

http://s93744050.onlinehome.us/eruptiontake18.mp3

But EVH could easily play anything that Hendrix ever did.

but steve vai, Joe, yngwie, a guy called liam flynne I know who lives down the road can play these songs, but it does not make them a better guitarist than Van Halen.

Originally Posted by: dakine80If you can't play Eruption now, you won't be playing it in a week! You under estimate one of the greatest or arguably THE greatest
guitarists "Cumming all over his guitar" as you put it. If your in the MIDDLE of learning a Hendrix song, there's just no way you can lay down Eruption or Spanish Fly in a week. I learn Hendrix songs, note for note, in about 30 minutes to an hour. You're barkin up the wrong tree, when it comes to who's stuff is harder to play.

I'm sure Jimi could play "Eruption", but he didn't. Eddie did.

As far as "revolutionizing the guitar" I would go with Hendrix. The stuff he did laid the groundwork for rock guitar and then Eddie just took it to the next level. I think that these two are the best guitarists that ever lived because of how they changed the way guitar is played and the countless musicians they've inspired. No others come close.

As far as who's better is a question, in my opinion, that can't be answered, so I think they should both be #1.

In the middle, as in, I actually had the guitar in my hands when I wrote that post.

You can learn Jimi in half an hour to an hour, eh? I want an MP3 of "Castles Made of Sand", you playing it of course. Is two hours too soon?

Went and had a listen to Eruption again. As soon as the strat is out of the shop, (say two weeks or so), I'll set forth to learn that song, and then i'll video record it, and post it, sound cool to you? Of course, you'll have to give me 1 week from the day I get my strat back to learn it, but i'll have it done earlier as my friends tell me, but say a week just to polish off that nice tapping thing Eddie has going on, which I've never done before.

I love it when people challenge me to play songs that are the genre of music I like, because even if I don't like the song in general, I'll learn whatever anyway. Proving people wrong is so much fun. :rolleyes:

BTW, "Cumming on the guitar" is my expression for doing really fast randomness that sounds good and feels good, makes sense doesn't it? ;)

RedZep

In my opinion jimi is definately better. I mean sure Eddie came up with tapping and what not but jimi played rythem guitar, lead guitar and sang all at the same time and that is definately one of the most difficult things to do in music, to me its kinda like it doesnt matter how many notes you can play in three seconds its more of the feeling and emotion you put into each note. But thats not to say Eddie didnt play with emotion.

Originally Posted by: RedZepIn the middle, as in, I actually had the guitar in my hands when I wrote that post.

You can learn Jimi in half an hour to an hour, eh? I want an MP3 of "Castles Made of Sand", you playing it of course. Is two hours too soon?

Went and had a listen to Eruption again. As soon as the strat is out of the shop, (say two weeks or so), I'll set forth to learn that song, and then i'll video record it, and post it, sound cool to you? Of course, you'll have to give me 1 week from the day I get my strat back to learn it, but i'll have it done earlier as my friends tell me, but say a week just to polish off that nice tapping thing Eddie has going on, which I've never done before.

I love it when people challenge me to play songs that are the genre of music I like, because even if I don't like the song in general, I'll learn whatever anyway. Proving people wrong is so much fun. :rolleyes:

BTW, "Cumming on the guitar" is my expression for doing really fast randomness that sounds good and feels good, makes sense doesn't it? ;)

RedZep

First you said your guitar was in the shop, but now it was in your hands?
Which was it? In the shop or in your hands? Or were you in the shop with it in your hands writing the post? I'm confused. :confused:

As far as Castles in the Sand, I learned that when I was a teenager and it took me much longer than an hour. If I were to learn it now (if I hadn't learned it before) it would probably take a an hour.

While two handed hammer-ons are the main feature of Eruption, it's the easiest part of it. You've never even done them before and you're going to mimic the master of them?!
I would LOVE to hear you play Eruption note for note, as it's played on "Van Halen 1" (not the mp3 schmannge posted;Eruption was done on the first take.) Take 18 sounds like it may have been recorded after Eddie had 18 beers. I'll give ya a month, sound fair?

All apologies if you prove me wrong. But you won't.

Good Luck!

Originally Posted by: RedZep

Went and had a listen to Eruption again. As soon as the strat is out of the shop, (say two weeks or so), I'll set forth to learn that song, and then i'll video record it, and post it, sound cool to you? Of course, you'll have to give me 1 week from the day I get my strat back to learn it, ;)

RedZep

now isnt is just so convinent that when a challenge comes, your guitar is in the shop for a week or so

...I smell somthing iffy... :confused:

Originally Posted by: dakine80First you said your guitar was in the shop, but now it was in your hands?
Which was it? In the shop or in your hands? Or were you in the shop with it in your hands writing the post? I'm confused. :confused:

As far as Castles in the Sand, I learned that when I was a teenager and it took me much longer than an hour. If I were to learn it now (if I hadn't learned it before) it would probably take a an hour.

While two handed hammer-ons are the main feature of Eruption, it's the easiest part of it. You've never even done them before and you're going to mimic the master of them?!
I would LOVE to hear you play Eruption note for note, as it's played on "Van Halen 1" (not the mp3 schmannge posted;Eruption was done on the first take.) Take 18 sounds like it may have been recorded after Eddie had 18 beers. I'll give ya a month, sound fair?

All apologies if you prove me wrong. But you won't.

Good Luck!

I had my guitar in my hands, I have 8 of them, so you would figure just because two of them are in the shop, I would be playing one of the other six.

Had a bout with tapping today, quite fun, not exactly easy, but if you get the compressor set just right, all you have to do is brush your finger over the fret and it picks the note up real nice.

Luckily for me, I have my dad to help me out with the tone, I'm crap at tones, I just play the guitar. He's been playin' for 40 years, so I should hope he has all that wired. :D

now isnt is just so convinent that when a challenge comes, your guitar is in the shop for a week or so

...I smell somthing iffy... :confused:

It's not convinent, I want the damn thing back (and my '58 Les Paul which is in there too), but best let the techs run their magic.

Well, back to playing me Tele, lates all,

RedZep

Originally Posted by: RedZepI had my guitar in my hands, I have 8 of them, so you would figure just because two of them are in the shop, I would be playing one of the other six.

Had a bout with tapping today, quite fun, not exactly easy, but if you get the compressor set just right, all you have to do is brush your finger over the fret and it picks the note up real nice.

Luckily for me, I have my dad to help me out with the tone, I'm crap at tones, I just play the guitar. He's been playin' for 40 years, so I should hope he has all that wired. :D


It's not convinent, I want the damn thing back (and my '58 Les Paul which is in there too), but best let the techs run their magic.

Well, back to playing me Tele, lates all,

RedZep

Dude, don't worry about the tone or even the quality of the recording. I just want to hear you play it. Practice it for a month(3 weeks more time than you said you could lay it down) and let er' rip. I'll be able to tell if your using the right effects or not, but I don't care about that. You could just play it with a sh*t guitar, straight into a sh*t amp.

BUT... if you really want to blow my mind and prove that I'm a dumba** by playing it note for note with a sh*t hot tone I'll let ya know EXACTLY how Eddie achived the Tone on Eruption: Use ALOT of reverb, high treble, go through a phase shifter and turn it all the way down and last, don't try the bar dive at the end because it's NOT a bar dive! He uses a delay peddle for the end effect.

If you play your telecaster(or any one of your 8 guitars) into pretty much any amp that's 60 watts or up with those effects you're set.

Hope to hear from you soon! ;)

Thanks for the tips, I had guessed all of them except the bit about the delay pedal, thanks for that. ;)

What you can tell me that I would like to know, is, right about the 5th note into the song he does;

------------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------
-------5---7^----------------
---7--------------------------
------------------------------

Now right at the part where the bend is with the "^" he gets this nice squeeky harmonic kick to the note, which just playing around I do once in a while, but I never knew you could control it, how exactly do you do this "on-call"? Or is he just hitting the damn thing just right to make it do that?

Anyway, n00b question of the day is now over.

RedZep

Originally Posted by: RedZepThanks for the tips, I had guessed all of them except the bit about the delay pedal, thanks for that. ;)

What you can tell me that I would like to know, is, right about the 5th note into the song he does;

------------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------
-------5---7^----------------
---7--------------------------
------------------------------

Now right at the part where the bend is with the "^" he gets this nice squeeky harmonic kick to the note, which just playing around I do once in a while, but I never knew you could control it, how exactly do you do this "on-call"? Or is he just hitting the damn thing just right to make it do that?

Anyway, n00b question of the day is now over.

RedZep

It's controlled. Use a thick guage pick, strike the note with the pick while graizng the string with your picking thumb.

Pulling off artificial harmonics is the last thing you should worry about now. You should probably start focusing on extremely accurate speed picking if you plan to pull this off.

jimi rocks on

Originally Posted by: dakine80It's controlled. Use a thick guage pick, strike the note with the pick while graizng the string with your picking thumb.

Pulling off artificial harmonics is the last thing you should worry about now. You should probably start focusing on extremely accurate speed picking if you plan to pull this off.

Thanks for that, sort of hard to pull off at first, but with a bit of practice I shall have it.

I know how to play fast, that's not my problem, it's all the little detail bits that are hard, the little things; like the harmonics.

Out of the 8 guitars I have, the only one that has a temelo bar is in the shop, total rippage. :(

RedZep

Originally Posted by: RedZepThanks for that, sort of hard to pull off at first, but with a bit of practice I shall have it.

I know how to play fast, that's not my problem, it's all the little detail bits that are hard, the little things; like the harmonics.

Out of the 8 guitars I have, the only one that has a temelo bar is in the shop, total rippage. :(

RedZep

Dude, I have to say, you're an extremely conceited person. You were just saying how Eruption was an easy solo to learn, and how you can learn to play it easily, yet here you are talking about your problems you're having with the song. And everytime you post an opinion, you talk as if it's a fact. I'm sure you understand the concept of opinions, so no matter how much crap you post, it isn't going to convince any of our minds to think the way you do. And dude, You don't HAVE to have a guitar with a tremelo bar in order to play it. In that case, most guitarist "won't" be able to play it. You have friggin 8 guitars, use any of em. Ok, I'm done with my rant. If you can play it, good for you, it's not made to make any of us feel bad. So please, stop being so arrogant.

Originally Posted by: Dante7978Dude, I have to say, you're an extremely conceited person. You were just saying how Eruption was an easy solo to learn, and how you can learn to play it easily, yet here you are talking about your problems you're having with the song. And everytime you post an opinion, you talk as if it's a fact. I'm sure you understand the concept of opinions, so no matter how much crap you post, it isn't going to convince any of our minds to think the way you do. And dude, You don't HAVE to have a guitar with a tremelo bar in order to play it. In that case, most guitarist "won't" be able to play it. You have friggin 8 guitars, use any of em. Ok, I'm done with my rant. If you can play it, good for you, it's not made to make any of us feel bad. So please, stop being so arrogant.

Why does it always seam, right when things calm down, someone has to come and yell again, waaaahhhhhhhhh.

Where did I say it was easy to play? Quote me on that please. I said if you locked me in my room, with a guitar and an amp (for a week (though it must have been 2 am and I forgot to type that)) I could learn it.

I know what the hell an opinion is, I don't need you to tell me. If my "opinion" comes off to you as sounding like a fact, that's your problem. Not mine. I'm not trying to convince anyone to think the way I do. That's the problem with opinions, everyone has an opinion on everyone's opinion of someones opinion. (Gee, thats a screwed up sentance. . .).

I don't HAVE to have a guitar with a tremelo bar to play the song, indeed, but regardless, it's in the song, and I choose to play it that way.

Done with my rant-back.

I'm glad this happened, I get to learn a whole bunch of stuff I wouldn't have otherwise. Like the bit on the harmonics, brilliant, I didn't know that, though i'm what one would call an "illiterate guitar player".

My fingers hurt (from playing, not typing), now for dinner. Dante7978; I'll be awaiting your rant-back, because I know you'll have one. Everyone does. :)

RedZep